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1994 Cali 1100i Misfire

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Bodmin Beast View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodmin Beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 13:32
Brian.

Yes, they do look the same. I just didn't know whether there were others with the same layout, but for a different loading etc. I did ping off the question to the seller yesterday, but they are probably shut until Monday. I will order then.

Thanks for the advice!

Regards Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theoneandonly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 15:56
it's not a washer , it's a rivet head ? 

pull all relays and fuses , change them all , even if they look good .

break and make and clean ,all electrical connections everywhere .

check plug cap resistance , and lead resistance 

check side stand switch 

check kill switch 

swop cam sensor and crank sensor around 

check temp sensor 

check tps 

check ign switch 

that should keep you busy for a bit .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodmin Beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 16:45
Hi Baldrick  Thank you for your input.

Bear in mind that it is a misfire I am chasing, also equally on both cylinders. The lack of spark has been resolved; hopefully...

Originally posted by theoneandonly theoneandonly wrote:

it's not a washer , it's a rivet head ?  No, definitely a 5mm flat washer.

pull all relays and fuses , change them all , even if they look good .  Relays on order.

break and make and clean ,all electrical connections everywhere . Hmmm, that will take a while!

check plug cap resistance , and lead resistance 

check side stand switch. Side stand switch has been removed by the PO as it was faulty. It has done 2000 miles or so since with no problems.

check kill switch. Shouldn't cause misfire?

swop cam sensor and crank sensor around.  Is the cam sensor just in front of the l/h cylinder?

check temp sensor 

check tps 

check ign switch 

that should keep you busy for a bit .

The rest I would have to get a.n.other to check, as I do not have the know-how or equipment to do those checks.

Would you discount fuel as the problem? Bear in mind I have just changed all the fuel hoses, and filter.

Many thanks. Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 23:56
Dirty fuel contaminated with water could cause a misfire.
 
Get a can of Servisol or similar electrical contact cleaner and lubricant and spray it into every switch and electrical connector you can find while operating the switch or wiggling the connector. WD40 is not the best, but will help.
 
All the micro relays are the same 5 terminal layout and are interchangeable, but some are rated higher than 20 Amps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodmin Beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 10:43
Brian. Fair point about the fuel, but I am happy it is ok. Fuel from the same source works fine in my Ducati and Benelli. At one point I drained the tank in order to remove it, filtering it as it came out, and used some of it in the other bikes, filtering as it went in, with no problem. There was no sign of water, or contaminants. It is ethanol-free Esso super-unleaded.

My only concern with the ebay relays was that they are all 20amp, when I saw a reference to 25amp on the American site. Having said that, I cannot find which rating should be used where, so will wait for the ebay ones. I did take out all the relays and fuses in that bank before posting on here initially, spraying with WD40 and, as you say, wiggling them to clean up the connections, but to no effect. There are many more to do though, and I do have electrical contact cleaner, so will use that.

Thanks again. Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cugsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 14:01
Don't wd40 them. Get some proper electrical cleaner. That cleans 'em and evaporates. wd sticks to them and coats them.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodmin Beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 14:46
Yes, as I said, I have some electrical contact cleaner, so will use that.

It fired up earlier with a fresh charge in the battery, but mis-fired as before. It needed full choke and full throttle in order to start, which is why I am wondering if there is a fuelling issue. Taking the choke off once running didn't make much difference to the mis-fire, and it won't tick over. I checked the plugs and they are black, which would indicate that it is running way too rich. The choke cable is doing it's job, in that the lever on top of the injectors turns with the cable movement, but I wonder if the choke butterflies are opening fully? I did not have the injectors off when changing the fuel lines, just the plastic cosmetic covers, and off course the airbox. I guess the only way to be sure is to disconnect the airbox connector hoses, which are a pain!

Can the ecu adjust the mixture drastically if it is getting duff info from a sensor? If so, which sensor? I am more used to old Brit iron, with Monobloc carbs and magnetosWink

BTW I listened up for relays clicking when switching the ignition, on, but if they were, it was drowned out by the whirring of the fuel pump.

Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 15:57
Sensors.
Well obviously the crank position ones will affect the spark timing, or even whether there is a spark at all.
 
Engine temperature sensor is often a culprit in that it can cause an over rich mixture as on some models there is an air gap between the sensor and the alloy casting so it never heats up enough. Don't know if this applies to your model.
 
Relays. For most applications a 20A contact rating should be adequate. The only one which has to take a higher current is the start relay, where a higher rating ought to be used. Really relay contacts should be rated well above the actual current they is expected to carry for longest life span.
You can check relay operation more easily by putting your finger on each one in turn, you will feel the relay operate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodmin Beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 17:49
RESULT!Thumbs Up

I removed the plastic injector covers, to ensure they were not interfering with the choke linkage. I then removed the 6 relays in the block, 2 of which I had replaced with the used ones I got from Gutsibits, and sprayed them with contact spray. I sprayed the fuses, and the electrical connections under the left-hand side panel, refitted the relays, and tried it. Fired right up with no throttle, cleared its throat cleaning up the plugs; although I had given them a brush before refitting them; and settled down to a tick over with the choke now off. Refitted the injector covers, tried again, running nicely.

So what was it? I can't be sure, specifically, which is a bit annoyingConfused

I cannot thank you all enough for your input; many thanks.

It still has a couple of issues. The starter button only works when it feels like it, needing several stabs before it will work. I guess that is just a case of removing and cleaning it up.

When riding on the IoM, and on the way back, it suffered from a hot start issue. Once it just would not fire, fortunately there was a very steep side lane by where we stopped, and it bump started ok. Needs resolving though.

Then there is the issue of a heavy-handed PO who has sheared off the heads of both the gearbox and rear bevel drive drain plugsOuch........

Regards Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jog53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 00:53
Hi Ian. Was in a similar situation this time last year with a 1995 1100i.Just in case the gremlins come back, or as an enhancement even if they don't, locate all electrical grounds that you can find.Clean/sand them and refit.I used petroleum jelly to seal the connections.The main source of my woes was traced to a defective coil which malfunctioned once heat was generated.The advice I got here greatly helped.Also,if yours has the two piece seat, water can soak down into the ecu and and relays under the side panel.I'm told that stiff plastic over the ecu to divert water can help.Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 08:14
The starter button issue is a known problem. Go to the FAQ section and look at the "Click no crank" topic.
 
Does your model have the headlight come on when the ignition is switched on, then the headlight goes out when you press the start button? If so read carefully the bit about this.
 
The original running problem was certainly a dirty connection somewhere. Worth using that spray on every electrical connection and switch you can find, including the ignition switch.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodmin Beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 14:49
John. Yes, cleaning the earths are on my to-do list. Thanks for the tip about the seat. I will take the necessary precaution!

Brian. I have now got up to page 5 on the 'Click no crank' thread; certainly seems to be a issue MG should have addressed long ago. My headlight does not come on when the ignition is switched on, fortunately by the sound of it. I will have a look at carrying out the mod, but it would help if I could identify the position of the starter relay. I cannot seem to find that info in the wiring diagram, unlike the fuses which are itemised on the inside of the r/h cover. I was going to attach a photo of the relay/fuse  block in the hope that someone could say which is which, but I don't seem to be able to do that.

Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodmin Beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 14:56
Looks like I can attach a picture, by not using the 'quick reply' box.  A bit grainy, but the 6 relays can be seen ok.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 17:13
Put your finger on each relay in turn and press the start button. You will feel the relay operating.
 
Is this the diagram you are looking at?
 
According to that your lights should go out when you press the start button if they have been switched on. There is a headlight relay (42) to do this, which is powered from the start relay (35). Look at the wire colours on the start relay (yes I know it's called the starter solenoid which is incorrect).
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodmin Beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 21:26
Brian. I misunderstood. I thought you meant do the lights come on with the ignition, then go off when the starter is cranked. I went out to check and if the lights are left on with the ignition off, the headlight comes on when the ignition is switched on, then goes off when the starter is cranked. As it happened it started right up, responding immediately to the starter button.....

As I understand it, if I do the starter relay mod, then I must remove the headlight relay and bridge across?

Ian
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