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1994 Cali 1100i Misfire

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Bodmin Beast View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 14:55
I have just joined the group, directed to you by a fellow member of the MotoGuzzi Club GB. I had posted about an issue on their forum, and received some replies, but it was suggested I ask on here, as you may have more expertise on older models. I have copied and pasted my original post to save my one-fingered typing having to do it all againEmbarrassed

In July I purchased a 1994 Cali 1100i, with 34k on the clock, from a friend who, having owned it for 2 years, was buying a new Triumph. On it's first ride, after about 30 miles it developed a misfire. I nursed it home, and after various checks, found a small flat washer hanging off the crankcase ignition trigger pick-up, located behind the r/h cylinder. Once removed, it ran perfectly. My mate said that the PO had a new starter motor fitted, and had been told to expect some swarf to be around for a while....!? He had experienced swarf on it once in his ownership, causing a misfire, removal of which restored it to perfect running.
I rode it to the IoM Classic TT in August, 1000 mile round trip, and whilst there a fuel pipe split. A local bike shop recovered it and replaced the pipe, but it was clear they all needed replacing, 9 in all. Rode back ok, and set about changing the pipes, also brake lines, and various other servicing jobs. Other stuff got in the way, building a workshop on my new house etc, but eventually completed the work, when the bike fired up and ran ok. MoT was out by that time, so didn't ride it. Booked in for an MoT a few weeks later, went to start it; no spark. Various checks, included fuses, all ok. Couldn't find any info on what the bank of 6 relays do, so I swapped the front two over, and got a spark. Fired up, headed off for the MoT, but after 1/2 a mile it started misfiring, coaxed it home, took out the aforementioned ignition trigger, and it had swarf on it. Removed the swarf, but no improvement. 
It is difficult to start, and the misfire is equally on both cylinders, so is unlikely to be coils. I am suspecting a relay issue, but do not know what each one does. However it may be something else entirely.
Any ideas?

Many thanks. Ian

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Jim Mac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 15:51
Hi Ian

as far as the relays are concerned if they are Siemens bin them - they are historically a big issue with various faults.   I had a '95 Cali 1100i that would cut out for no reason at all, and after a lot of punching and kicking it would start as if nothing was wrong - forum gudied me to suspect the relays - they were Siemens and i changed them over for little cost and had no problem after that 

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i Used DP  - relays were with me within the week from USA,  very solid guy, and cheaper than uk
http://www.dpguzzi.com/relay.htm

 Towzatronics
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/towzatronics

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cugsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 16:18
Not a proper hijack but a related question Jim. Do you advocate replacing the original relays on the older bikes anyway? Mines a 99 cali - do it now? Or if it ain't broke etc..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tarquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 17:29
Originally posted by cugsy cugsy wrote:

Not a proper hijack but a related question Jim. Do you advocate replacing the original relays on the older bikes anyway? Mines a 99 cali - do it now? Or if it ain't broke etc..



Definitely!

Get them from Pyro dan using Jim Mac's link.

Great service, great quality and great price.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 18:44
Welcome another +ve on pyro dan utterly brill guy he posted the relays before I had even paid him I bought 2 sets and spares they are useful for other uses.... headlamp relays is one option
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cugsy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cugsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 20:27
Big difference on price too. The siemens are about £30+ compared with £3 from ya man there. 
Honda nc750x ...hmm - a superdream for the 21st century? ZZZZZZ But the goozi is back running..yesserii jim bob. Fun time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 21:39
Any model fitted with the micro relays and with the Siemens name on them should be changed.
 
Older models (up to about 1990) will have the standard automotive relays, bigger and square looking. These are generally more reliable.
 
I would suggest you get a set of relays and replace them all, then see how things work.
 
Certainly swarf on the pickup will also cause a misfire. But if it continued after cleaning, then go for the relays.
 
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theoneandonly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 21:53
check plug caps too , std ones are sh*te 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 22:42
One other issue I had was the connection tor to the ECU. It was not at a full fit and on occasions would disconnect. A slight bump either way was enough to break the connection and reset it.   Drove me.mad until I discovered it. Quick cable tie around the box solved that one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodmin Beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 17:32
Gents. Thank you for all your replies. I will change all the relays as a starting point. As it happens, the two relays which I switched over were both Bosch, one of which at least is faulty. I did buy 3 s/h relays from Gutsibits in order to weedle out the faulty one; obviously a mistake, as they were all Siemens..... Maybe Gutsibits should be throwing used Siemens relays in the bin, rather than selling them. I assumed that they would test them before sending them out. Maybe they did. Anyway I will write that one off to experience, and order new. I am inclined to order from the UK seller as per the link from Jim Mac, for which many thanksClap. Before I do, are these the correct ones? 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MICRO-Relays-5-Pin-Changeover-Contact-20A-12V-SEALED-PACK-10-/301682659371?hash=item463db0102b

Unlike the American site they do not show cross-references. 

£20 for 10 ain't bad, leaving a few spare.

Regards. Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cugsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 17:46
Ian. pm'd you    John
Honda nc750x ...hmm - a superdream for the 21st century? ZZZZZZ But the goozi is back running..yesserii jim bob. Fun time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodmin Beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 18:13
OK John. Hmmm, now where do I find that?

No worries; found it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 23:04
Gutsibits should not be selling second hand relays of that type, they are so cheap new and readily available.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodmin Beast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 09:24
Brian. I agree! At the time I did not know that cheaper ones were available on line, and Gutsibits, from whom I have bought a few £100's worth of bits already, sell them new for £12.60 each. I didn't realise that you could buy 5 for that and have some change.... doh... They advertised used ones for £3 each, I assumed they must test them before selling them, so I bought 3. Ermm

Never mind, I have only waste a tenner or so, with the postage, and I have learnt something!

Just to bump this from earlier, are these the correct ones, before I buy?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MICRO-Relays-5-Pin-Changeover-Contact-20A-12V-SEALED-PACK-10-/301682659371?hash=item463db0102b

Cheers. Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 10:23
Sold by Towzer, so should be good quality. Do they look like the ones you have? If so then they are the correct relays. The earlier type used were larger and square.
 
Problem with buying second hand relays is there is no guarantee that they will be OK, no real test can be done on the internal contacts.
 
Vehicle Wiring Products also sell all this sort of thing and more.


Edited by Brian UK - 06 Jan 2018 at 10:26
Brian.

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