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1000 SP: Sensible Tubeless Tyre Wheels

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Omobono View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omobono Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1000 SP: Sensible Tubeless Tyre Wheels
    Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 17:00
So, this morning the throttle ensemble was substituted for the "Lego" one, and everything seems just fine (boy, the first start of the year of a Guzzi's engine always reminds me of Christmas Morning when I was very little...; I have a nasty headache today but I want to ride tomorrow without fail...). 

We also changed the rear tyre and, to my surprise, the "tubeless" tyre actually had.... an inner tube. The mobile mechanic (this is Mark Vallance, the same one of last year, and he was very good again; I needed to use a mobile mechanic because I can only have the bike worked on on a Saturday and the bike obviously did not move due to lack of... throttle cables) explained to me that the wheel has a slightly different form on the inside of the wheel, such that it forces the use of an inner tube even if a tyre with "tubeless" written on it is mounted on the wheel.

I try not to obsess about these things, but boy I am now here reflecting that I have been riding with inner tubes when I thought I was riding tubeless all the time. 

So I am now thinking whether any of you has decided to switch a Mid-Eighties Guzzi to wheels suitable for tubeless tyres that are, ideally, reasonably priced (no super-fancy, space-age, brag-at-the-pub material), good to look at and, again ideally, not requiring new brake discs (albeit for this one could actually think about an upgrade if, again, reasonable to do and not requiring any DVLA hassle). 

Any experiences?   

Thanks

Omobono

P.s. I really can't avoid thinking of that engine as it started....   

  
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ranton_rambler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ranton_rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 20:47
Just run with tubes in. That's what the wheels are designed for.
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Barry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 20:48
On the 1000SP, a tubeless tyre with a tube inserted is the norm. Essentially, that's not a tubeless rim.

Swapping the wheels, to a spec per your description would neither be straightforward, nor cheap.

Stop messing about. You've got the paint done. You've got the throttle and switches sorted. Ride it!
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 21:05
The 1990 1000 SP III had tubeless rims.
However, I have no idea if they would fit the earlier model.
 
Have to admit, tubeless is far easier to deal with when a puncture happens.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omobono Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 07:32
Thanks, Barry! 
Actually, I am afraid I will never stop messing about with this bike! Wink
What i will do is to pick sensible improvements every year, once this and once that, in order to make the bike more and more like I want it. 
But yeah, I will ride it too! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 08:06
All the older bikes have to run tubes in most modern tyres have tubeless written on them, as has been said run with it they work ...to find tubeless rims is difficult and expensive if it was easy many would swap rims .....as far as I know the tubeless are wider so it therefore may need swing arm etc it will then upset the handling .....as is often said oem works best especially on older Guzzis ....
The Older i Get, The Better I Was
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 20:25
Surprising how often this topic has come up in the last year or so - what they said, the cast wheels fitted to 1000 SP and other models are not, and never were, tubeless compatible. This was confirmed to me by my local bike shop who refused to put tubeless on (that is to say, without inner tubes included), and explained why. Also it could be a potential safety issue as regards insurance.


"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2018 at 14:01
Riding a bike with inner tubes or tubeless makes very little difference, apart from the fact that spoked rims are more compliant to the road and more comfortable. 

Tubeless tyres have to 'cleat' into the rim. Spoked rims to take tubeless tyres need to have this recess in the rim, but they still need inner tubes because they leak like a sieve.

If you get a puncture in an inner tube you would have got a puncture in a tubeless, because whatever caused the puncture has come through the cover.  If the valve rips out you didn't inflate the tyre properly, or you had a slow leak and were riding on a flat tyre, which is the same thing. Fixing a puncture on an inner tube can be more or less complicated than one on a tubeless; you have to change the inner tube, you may not have to plug the tyre; properly done both are wheel-out. 

Alloy wheels are usually tubeless fitting, they are stiffer but give a harder ride, less unsprung weight but they are more prone to breaking on bad rutted roads, potholes and off-road (they're banned for off-road competition)

Spoked rims are more comfortable to ride on, but you have to have an inner tube.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2018 at 14:42
Not all absolutely true......

Originally posted by jefrs jefrs wrote:



Tubeless tyres have to 'cleat' into the rim. Spoked rims to take tubeless tyres need to have this recess in the rim, but they still need inner tubes because they leak like a sieve.

No, all they have to do is seal to it. Look at a tubeless tyre and you'll see a soft rubber flap that forms the seal. As long as the rim is smooth a spoked wheel will seal here BUT you do need to seal the spokes. I've outlined somewhere here how I did it on my Tiger 955i, and this lasted around 15,000 miles till I sold the bike - as far as I know is still OK. In theory you need a ledge to keep the tyre on but if you did have a complete deflation of a tubeless tyre it will behave no differently to a tubed one. The tube will do absolutely nothing to keep the tyre on.

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If you get a puncture in an inner tube you would have got a puncture in a tubeless, because whatever caused the puncture has come through the cover.


Not quite. Whereas the tube will catastrophically fail the tubeless will at worst develop a slow leak and often will not leak at all - in fact I've driven for miles with a screw through a tubeless (car) tyre.

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Fixing a puncture on an inner tube can be more or less complicated than one on a tubeless; you have to change the inner tube, you may not have to plug the tyre; properly done both are wheel-out. 


An external plug is fine for a tubeless tyre provided done properly.

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Spoked rims are more comfortable to ride on, but you have to have an inner tube.


I can't comment on comfort but cannot imagine that a properly built wheel will offer any more than minimal flex over bumps. One reason for spokes on off-road bikes is their ability to be straightened and rebuilt, often by the side of the road.
Ian
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BobV7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobV7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2018 at 15:01
Not to pour petrol on this fire, I did change my wire wheels for cast simply because it's far easier to plug a tubeless tyre than to change an inner tube on a shaft drive bike at the roadside. As has already been said a nail or screw in the tyre may not be big deal unless you insist on pulling it out. You may not even have noticed it until an odd noise when you're wheeling the bike around at home brings it to your attention! The main difference I have found apart from a not inconsiderable weight saving, is that wire wheels impart a cushioning effect to the ride whereas cast wheels feel much stiffer. This does not bother me, having to wait for a breakdown vehicle to get me home does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2018 at 18:08
As far as Guzzi is concerned, the cast wheels from around 1989 were made to accept tubeless tyres. My '90 SPIII had tubeless as OEM. Far easier when you do get a puncture.
On earlier models it's probable that a tube would be required.

Equally later spoked rims have been made to take tubeless tyres.
Brian.

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red leader one View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red leader one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2018 at 19:58
I wonder if they ride the same
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2018 at 06:22
Originally posted by red leader one red leader one wrote:

I wonder if they ride the same

 Spoked have to be much more sensitive, they're bouncy and have nipples all around them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry atric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2018 at 08:02
I suppose someone had to mention it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rapheal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2018 at 09:25
Dont buy a motorcycle with spokes wheels says I
does he listen
does he !!!!!



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